murder vs mansluaghter

[blackfalcon]

I believe that people who commit manslaughter (except 1st degree) unless they were doing something very illegal should be handled very lightly, if not not punished at all. But yet if you commit murder, i think you should be killed. Who else thinks this way?

[Drz23]

I disagree with your last statement entirely. To many times innocent men have gone to jail and then later evidence comes out that concludes it was not them. You must be punished for manslaughter to a certain degree, though it all depends on the situation. You are in a fight and at first it is self-defense but once you get him on the ground you hit him with a bat to the head they should be punished strongly. If you kill a man, no matter if you tried to or not you ought to be punished.

[blackfalcon]

What if you are in a car and your car skids you hit someone. What if you did not intend to hurt someone at all? What if it was all an accident. Everyone who commits manslaughter would do anything to take it back. You could while driving home accidently kill someone. Should you get punished severely for it? If you were driving drunk, that is one thing, but if you were not breaking any laws, and you are not intending to hurt someone. You will find most people who commit manslaughter feel worse that they hurt someone one then that they broke the law. Punishment is to teach you not to do something. What is punishing someone for manslaughter for? Dont accidently kill people? Something that they know anyway and did not intend or want to do?

And about killing them I was exaggerating. And what is the difference between someone who did not kill someone and someone who did, but did not intend to?

[Lass]

My opinion is pretty much that accidental deaths (and I mean accidental; that does not, in my books, include driving over the speed limit and then "accidentally" hitting a pedestrian) should not be punished. For example, X is fishing and his hook flies off when he's casting his line; it hits Y, who is a haemophiliac and dies of blood loss. In English law, this is known as "lack of certain foresight". You had no idea and could not possibly have imagined that death could result yet death did result. The guy is not guilty of murder and should not be punished at all. Punishment is, to my mind, (1) about justice and (2) about the safety of the public. In the example given, there is no fault to be punished and no justice to be done; neither is there any doubt as to the risk of leaving X in society. Hence, no punishment.

If X hits Y over the head, not in self-defence, whether or not he intended to kill, and Y dies, that is murder, IMHO.

The one example is a plain accident. The second is a deliberate act which directly caused death. The one should be punished, the other should not.

[Dom]

[quote=Lass]
...For example, X is fishing and his hook flies off when he's casting his line; it hits Y, who is a haemophiliac and dies of blood loss...
[/quote]

You gruesome woman!!

Basically, I think that there are three basic situations:

- Someone was killed, and the killer intended to do it.
- Someone was killed, but the killer did NOT intend to do it.
- Someone was killed, but the killer did NOT intend to do it. However, the death resulted from an illegal activity (such as breaking the speed limit).

The first example is just plain murder, and the murderer should be punished. The second example demonstrates a complete accident, and in my eyes, the killer should NOT be punished. I imagine they'll be forever torturing themselves having to live with the knowledge they've killed someone. The third example was also an accident, but it's likely that the accident would not have occured (or would have occured to a much lesser extent) if the killer was not engaging in an illegal activity.

[Lass]

But what about a situation where you accidentally kill someone, no intention, but you were taking a big risk in whatever you were doing that ultimately killed the person? Should that be punished?

And err, I was having problems getting a really kinda freak accident for my example lol. It is kinda gruesome!

[Dom]

Well it depends what you mean when you say 'risk'. Breaking the speed limit could be considered a risk, and an illegal one at that, and so if you killed someone by breaking the speed limit you should be punished.

But if you're just taking a risk in general, and not breaking any law, then I guess you shouldn't be punished. Some people might say that the risk that was taken, while perfectly legal, was unnecessary, and that a life could have been saved. But you could argue that taking unnecessary risks is simply a matter of stupidity. And since when is it right to punish someone for being stupid? (For want of a better word).

I guess it gets a bit hazey really. At the end of the day, though, if someone didn't intend to kill a person, I would imagine the guilt that they have to live with is punishment enough. Those that did intend to commit murder should be punished, as it's unlikely that they'll be remorseful about it.

[Lad]

Well with risk it's not normally a criminal wrong. It's usually a civil case and cases belong in the civil courts with the person suing for damages. There is no such thing as guilty and no one is punished in a civil court. It is about making up a loss.

To make an example up for a risk let's say:
A owns a car hire company. A discovers a faulty car which has a petrol leak. Knowing it is very dangerous and shouldn't be driven A books it in for repair, but allows B his employee to drive it to the mechanics 30 miles away. On the way B collides with a vehicle driven lawfully by C when driving around a roundabout. B dies when the car bursts into flames. An investigation found B would not have occurred if the vehicle did not have a petrol leak.

No intentions there, Blackfalcon?

[appleton]

A should have had it towed away.

He knew it shouldn't be driven. I can't see any obvious intent there. Perhaps stupidity. Which people have a lot of these days

[Dom]

Yeah, again though, people shouldn't be punished for being stupid. 'A' clearly didn't intend for 'B' to be killed, however stupid he might have been. If I was 'A' I know I'd feel pretty bad about what happened, and I'd have learnt my lesson, that's for sure.